In this context, myrepublica.com Kiran Chapagain and Kosh Raj Koirala talked to Rawal on Saturday to learn his views on different aspects of SSP and other current issues.
Excerpts
myrepublica: How do you assess the overall law and order situation in the country?
Bhim Rawal: The law and order situation is gradually improving. We are receiving indications from different parts of the country that the security situation is gradually improving and the morale of security forces has gone up.
Can you be specific about these indicators?
Of course. The ring leaders of criminal groups have been arrested. Similarly, highways and main roads are relatively free from blockades. Even if they are blocked, security forces have been able to open that up within a few minutes.
Is there any connection of the talks that the Peace Ministry is holding with different armed groups to the improved security situation?
Out of the 109 groups that the government has identified, there are only four groups that are engaged in dialogue with the government. There may have been some positive impact on the security situation due to their commitment and ceasefire. But several other groups involved in violence are not engaged in dialogue with the government. Despite their snubbing the government’s offer for talks, we have been successful in containing their activities and arresting some of their leaders. The security forces have also been able to seize a huge cache of arms and ammunitions. All these things have contributed to improving the security situation.
There are concerns from various quarters that the SSP is aimed at suppressing the movement of ethnic and Madhesi groups? What do you have to say on this?
SSP is not aimed against any political party, religious professional or regional groups. This program is aimed at controlling criminal and violent activities that are against the existing laws, constitution and democratic norms and values. We are currently making every effort possible to closely scrutinize these groups to identify whether they are political groups or just criminal gangs. We have been holding consultations with different stakeholders about their history. That is the reason we are taking time to classify them into two separate groups: Political and criminal. Since this is a sensitive issue, it is better to take time than to jump down to conclusions.
I have met the leaders of some of these groups and told them very clearly that as long as they are engaged in peaceful activities and advocating their professional or communal rights or the rights of people to which they belong to, they should not be worried. If they carry out violent activities and talk about the use of arms or about forming so-called armies, then the state has to act according to legal provisions.
It’s very clear that this program is aimed at stabilizing the political situation, protect democracy, restore peace and create a congenial environment to write the new constitution within the stipulated time and also make the ongoing peace process a success.
Have the armed groups opted to retaliate after SSP came into implementation?
It is quite natural that some of the groups may have become agitated. In such a situation, some of the groups might carry out activities out of desperation. Security forces and administration will not be deterred by such desperate moves of violent or criminal groups. If they react, the state will act accordingly.
Given the open border that we share with India, there must be close cooperation from India to curb criminal activities in bordering Tarai districts? How has the Indian cooperation been in this regard?
Peace and the stability are in the interest of every country. It is in the interest of India, China and Nepal. I believe all of our neighbors, especially India and China, want to see peace and stability in Nepal. Therefore, I believe that despite the porous border, the Indian authorities also want to see the border area peaceful and free from criminal activities. India also wants to see trans-border smuggling of goods, weapons and explosives controlled.
I believe all our neighbors, especially India, are positive and they want to see peace and stability in Nepal. We also want to cooperate with them. We will not allow any element or criminal group to carry out activities against any friendly countries, especially our neighbors, on our soil.
Indian authorities handed over leaders of a few senior armed groups after the visit of Prime Minister (PM) Madhav Kumar Nepal to India. Has there been any change in the policy of South Block in this regard?
As you can see, India is also affected by different violent groups. They have witnessed inhumane terrorist attacks in different parts in the recent past. In this backdrop, I think, peace and stability in Nepal will have positive impact on India and the region as a whole. Therefore, both our neighbors, especially India, are very sensitive on this issue and we need to move forward with close cooperation to control criminal and violent activities in future.
Was there any agreement reached between the two countries during the PM’s visit?
Peace and security agenda are always a priority among nations everywhere. It was quite natural to discuss these issues during the PM’s visit. Both the countries want to protect human rights, democracy and establish peace in our respective countries. That’s why it is quite natural to have closer cooperation in these areas.
What are the major challenges that you are facing in implementing the SSP?
The first challenge is the general political situation in the country. The second challenge is the lack of unanimity among political parties about national security policy and to make our society free from criminal activities. The third challenge is the inadequacy of resources and means. The fourth challenge is the lack of awareness amongst the people about the importance of peace, security and stability. And the last one is the ongoing political stalemate in the country.
Don’t you think that the porous border is also one of the major impediments in making the security plan a success?
Yes, the open border has created challenges for us. It is not easy to carry out surveillance in our borders. In the north, there are formidable mountains and difficult terrains but in the south the border is open.
Is there any plan to upgrade the logistics, including the fire power, of Armed Police Force (APF) and Nepal Police?
This issue is under discussion. We are thinking about making our security forces effective by providing them with proper training, logistics and equipments. It is obvious that security forces cannot bring the desired results that Nepali people aspire for without equipping them first.
Yes, sometimes arms and ammunitions are important. But, primarily the human factor is very important. If you encourage and raise the morale of security forces and are able to give them orientation about the goals that you have set, security personnel can produce positive results even with existing logistics. But, as you have indicated, security forces need necessary arms and ammunitions as well.
Don’t you think this problem of logistics is already affecting your work?
As you know, the cabinet has approved Rs 90.6 million for the mobilization of security forces. In addition, the cabinet has also given the nod to recruit more personnel in both Nepal Police and APF. The cabinet has further approved about Rs 300 million for the purpose. I think we will now be able to make the security forces more effective both from the logistic and training point of view.
There are concerns raised by some political parties that the security plan may result in human rights violations. What do you have to say on this?
When we talked about the five action plans of the security plan, we simultaneously issued a clear code of conduct for both administrators and security forces. And we have published it and circulated it among the security forces and administrators. This code of conduct is entirely in accordance with universal human rights and fundamental rights enshrined in our constitution and advocated by all human rights activists in Nepal. The ministry will act swiftly and quickly whenever we are reported about any incident of human rights violations and bring the guilty under the law.
Intelligence is also a vital element to ensure peace and security in the country? Do you have any plans to strengthen the intelligence wing of the country?
When we talk of strengthening and consolidating state security apparatus, the national investigation department also comes under this. Maintaining law and order is difficult without strengthening the entire security apparatus. We are aware of the fact that the investigation department requires more consolidation and strengthening according to the need of the time.
You made a visit to Mustang and Manang a couple of days ago. The visit comes in the wake of Chinese authorities exerting pressure on Nepal to deploy APF personnel along the northern border to foil possible infiltration of free-Tibet activists. Is there any plan to deploy APF personnel along the northern border right away?
I did not visit Mustang and Manang at the insistence of any country. It is our national plan to make our border secure and free from infiltration from any criminal activities. We do not want to allow any elements to carry out activities in Nepali soil against any of our friendly countries. We plan to gradually deploy APF in different points along the border. We have already deployed security forces along Nepal-India border. Similarly, now we are moving towards deploying APF along the northern border. In this connection, I just went to Mustang and Manang to see how the APF can be sent there. We have also already sent two groups of APF to study the situation and explore the possibility of them being deployed there. We are studying to figure out the number of border points at which the APF can be deployed along the northern border.
Is it the need of Nepal or the China to deploy APF along the northern border?
It is very clear that to secure our border is in our national interests. At the present situation, when our country is preparing to move from one sort of political scenario to another political situation, we have to put our utmost efforts to make our border secure and efficient to control any type of violent activities.
Is it because of the Chinese pressure that the government is preparing to deploy APF along the northern border at this particular point of time?
I have not felt any pressure at any time. It is according to our decision and our policy and our need. There is no connection of the ministerial or the government level visits to China as indicated by the media to the plan of deploying APF along the northern border. They keep taking place frequently both in China and India.
Why is the government getting harsher on Tibetan refugees involved in peaceful protests in Nepal?
The state cannot allow any group, whether they are Tibetans or others, to carry out any kind of activities against our neighbors. We cannot allow any group to carry out activities in our soil against India or China. So, it is quite natural to control them. The state is ready to put them under trial if the situation demands. It is the duty of the state. No elements or group can violate our constitution and legal provisions under any pretext. They have to obey our constitution, our laws and abide by our legal arrangements.
They have the rights to stage peaceful protests. Don’t they?
No. Refugees have no rights to carry out any activities against any third country. According to UN Principle and internationally-recognized principle, no refugee is allowed to carry out violent or forceful activities and any malicious actions against any friendly countries from where they have taken refuge. They are violating our legal provisions. That is the reason why we are arresting and putting them in detention.
Any final words?
I would like to humbly request all political parties, human rights activists, media people, civil society members and people in general to respect and understand the aspirations of Nepali people for peace and security. And I humbly request them to move together to achieve this goal, thus to make our state able to bring out the new constitution in the stipulated time and strengthen our sovereignty, territorial integrity, dignity and freedom.
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